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Smoking ban (Read 210291 times)
Blad
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #135 - Apr 24th, 2006 at 3:53am
 
It is now beyond and irritant when one hears the mendacious and shameless nonsense repeated time and time again by the anti-smoking lobby and the British government concerning the fictional numbers of people who have died from the effects of second hand smoke. When this lobby, along with our government, is asked to name anyone who has actually died from it - let alone three people - they are unable to do so.

However, we can name three people who have already died as a result of smoking bans in the UK. There was the elderly pensioner - Jim Donachie - who fell against a bar in Dundee when trying to go outside for a smoke; the nurse - Cheryl Moss - who was murdered at Hornchurch Hospital when she was forced to go outside to an unsafe area for a smoke. And lastly, there was the patient at Doncaster Hospital - Philip Hoe - who accidentally set himself on fire as a result of sneaking outside for a crafty puff. If there hadn't been smoking bans but instead properly controlled and properly ventilated interior locations for smokers then all those three would still be alive now.

Proven deaths in the UK from second hand smoke = 0
Proven deaths in the UK as a result of smoking bans = 3
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dcbrainstorm
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #136 - Apr 26th, 2006 at 8:52pm
 
You are right Blad.  I heard about all of those deaths too.  I think it is a terrible way to treat people, especially those who are in hospital for whatever reason.  There is nothing worse than seeing a patient having to struggle through the car park to get off NHS property to have a ciggie.  So much for caring eh?

If there are really any lawyers on here, I wonder if they could answer this question. 

The ex-servicemens home, Holybush, on the West coast, should be exempt from the smoking ban thus allowing the elderly residents to smoke in what is effectively their own home.  Because of the level of scare-mongering led by this Government, the staff have decided that they don't want these elderly men to smoke in the home but instead go outside.

My question is, where would these men stand in a court of law with regards to their right to smoke in the home which should be exempt, being withdrawn?

Again, won't hold breath waiting for a reply, but if anyone has any idea, your reply would be most appreciated.
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #137 - May 16th, 2006 at 10:00pm
 
So now it's your turn - the lawyers - to have your thoughts on matters which concern you fall on deaf ears!

How does it feel to be on the receiving end of the Scottish Parliament's big ideas for the future when they pay no attention to those who it will affect most?

Just wanted to know if any of you now wanted to possibly try to help answering the questions which we have been asking on this thread for six months now......since it looks like one day we may all end up in the same boat if this Government insists on stamping around like a bully.

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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #138 - May 20th, 2006 at 3:19am
 
Well said dcbrainstorm where are the lawyers on this board? This thread has been viewed 4213 times!! still no answer.

Probably too busy in their nice smoke free pubs to come on here now.
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kirstin...oh yeah
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #139 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 8:48pm
 
three words...deal with it Grin
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #140 - Jul 9th, 2006 at 5:01am
 
Kirstin, how do you propose that people "Deal with it"?

Any suggestions to someone like myself who now has to face the utter indignity of standing like a novelty act in a circus  since my workplace introduced a total ban on smoking anywhere on their premises, going far and beyond any legislative requirement? How should I deal with that?

Or what do you feel while watching elderly peolple, many of them war veterans, struggle to walk being forced to make their own way outdoors, as their carers are instructed not to help them go outside to smoke, even thought the legislation excempts care homes? How should they deal with it?

What about the Nurse who, because her employer instigated a premisis smoking ban was brutally murdered while smoking on her break off the premises? How should her family deal with it?

Would like to know your thoughts.
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kirstin...oh yeah
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #141 - Jul 11th, 2006 at 5:20pm
 
My thoughts on that....
For those people who stand outside to smoke, abide by the legislation, understand and accept why it was introduced and don't constantly think the world owes them something because they can't give it up...I have the greatest of respect.
It is the people who feel the need to whinge at every opportunity about having to leave their friends on a night out becasue they now HAVE to go outside to continue their addiction, that I have a distinct problem with.
You really want my suggestion as to how you deal with 'the indignity' of standing outside for a f*g? stop smoking. I undersand why your trip outdoors may not be fill you with the greatest of self respect, so why don't you do yourself a favour?
If the legislation exempts care homes, and the carers have been instructed not to help them go outdoors then surely this is a different issue entirely since from what you have said the legislation is not being followed correctly.
To refer to the nurse who was killed, for her family I have the utmost sympathy. However, she was simply filling the role as a law abiding citizen. You might say that if there wasn't such legislation she wouldn't have been killed, but anyone could be killed standing in their own. I don't believe for one minute that the nurse was targeted becasue she was a smoker. You can't use this as a reason to justify not having the ban.
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #142 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 3:53am
 
So according to you, dignity means suspending judgment and coming automatically to the conclusion that government has one's best interests at heart.

And is your purpose to humiliate smokers, as your advice to Highlander suggests the logical course of action is to stop smoking if he doesn't want to endure humiliation.

Let me remind you that you don't know the thoughts of these thousands of people standing outside doorways smoking, but let me assure you that a lot of them feel as much irritation at being there as I do at being left in the bar by myself, automatically being asked to mind drinks.

Is the government's aim to improve the quality of social discourse? Because if it is, it is going a very strange way about it.

As for the death of the nurse Cheryl Moss, it is perhaps a little academic to ask whether she would have died had a workplace ban not been in place. Likewise whether her killer identified her as an easy target because she was a smoker. What is certain is that ban conditions make life in an already stressful situation (a hospital) worse for workers, patients and visitors. Forcing people right off the grounds is quite unwarranted, and any health trust that passes such policies should be ashamed. I know for a fact that many smokers will suffer at home rather than put themselves and their loved ones through the ordeal of attending hospital.
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #143 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 5:31am
 
It seems smokers are allowed no dignity even if they continue a legal habit.
What has happened is that a minority have built a massive propaganda machine to denormalised smokers and demonise smoking. They have managed to intrude their wishes onto the lives of smokers and non-smokers through flimsy evidence published by single minded health professionals who pay little heed to other valid studies. Their evidence is tainted by self interest and a pre-determined desire for a specific outcome.
A clear example of this is the highly publicised 71% in favour of a total ban yet the official figure published by the Office of National Statistics is only 33%. Why the discrepancy? Oh yes, it was an Internet poll commissioned by ASH and Cancer Research UK.
If a record of the individual contributers is available it might be interesting to learn how the result was so far from the truth. Far be it from me to suggest anyone might have abused the privilege of prior knowledge.
This health lobby has assumed the right to fashion private businesses yet make no personal investment and suffer no loss.
I have never sat in a pub and felt it move towards a non-smoker. They have a right not to enter the premises if they don't like what's in there. It is the owners right to run his business in the manner he wishes and a workers right not to accept employment if the conditions are not acceptable.
Still the ban's working ----- there are no workers suffering poluted air in at least 5 Bingo Halls because they've closed (with more to come). No smoker has to suffer the indignity of standing outside to smoke since they can join the maybe 2,000 other smokers and non-smokers sitting at home without their simple pleasure knowing that they dispensible in New Scotland.
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #144 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 9:45am
 
Kirstin...oh yeah?

Oh yeah what ??

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kirstin...oh yeah
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #145 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 7:02pm
 
kirstin...oh yeah...oh yeah i'm not gonna get lung cancer!can't grumble can i?

i appear to have mistaken this thread for one discussing usernames...how odd  ???
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #146 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 2:03am
 
Kirstin

You are right: rather than talk about our names, let's talk about what we are going to die of as this is far more relevant. Nobody is told what they are going to die of, but I am happy that you don't feel that you are at any particular risk from lung cancer.

However these figures are taken from 2003 statistics:

Total deaths 610,871
Total deaths from heart disease 113,895
Total deaths from stroke 65,764
Total deaths from lung cancer 33,420
Total deaths from respiratory disease 84,405

Total deaths from these four major 'smoking related' conditions 297,484

Smokers account for max 25% of population therefore they account for about a quarter of total, that is 152,717. This leaves 144,767 non-smokers dying from so-called smoking related conditions. And before you say that they are all victims of secondary smoke you can think again. The only premature stroke death I know of was of a non-smoking market gardener aged 49 who spent most of her time outdoors. Anecdotal but true.

Lung cancer is the only one of these conditions that kills more people under 75 than over it, and it is impossible to pin down the cause of conditions that have no single known cause, especially in people of advanced age: a variety of factors is known to contribute to all these things.
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #147 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 9:01pm
 
Kirstin....oh yeah.

Surely you are not a lawyer or training to be a lawyer?  God help us if you are!!
You should be ashamed of yourself - you are either what we call 'a silly wee lassie' or a 'troll'.  Whichever it is, you add nothing to the debate other than your hatred of smokers...........nice that isn't it.

Sure your parents must be so proud of you........Not.

Go and get yourself a real life - That's what most of us do.  It is only poor souls like you that depend on Government to decide what you need to do with your free time. Sucker!
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kirstin...oh yeah
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #148 - Jul 19th, 2006 at 3:21am
 
'dcbrainstorm' who do you think you are?

what does it matter if i'm training to be a lawyer (which i am) or are a lawyer already...this is a subject in which i have both particular interest and concern. I'll be going through the same degree as what every other lawyer has done, so God help us all eh?
I have absolutely NO reason to feel ashamed of myself whatsoever, i am glad i was brough up by non-smoking, anti-smoking parents...who i believe would be very proud of me.
I might be younger than yourself and probably others who have posted comments but i still have an opinion which i believed was asked for? i don't think i'm the silly one throwing personal attacks about and deflecting from the discussion.
And for the record i'll say it again, i don't hate the smokers, i hate the smoke.
As for me adding nothing to the debate:
Have people replied to what i've said? on more than one occassion?... so i've not added anything to the debate?
The government in my eyes have done a pretty good job with this specific issue, that is my opinion. Whether you chose to accept that or not is up to you, but there is absolutely no need to be offensive towards me or anyone else for that matter.
Take your personal insults and childish name-calling elsewhere.

One last question...what do you think of the ban?Wink
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Re: Smoking ban
Reply #149 - Jul 19th, 2006 at 5:43am
 
Kirstin
You're the one who can look (a long way) back to a judgement about a child being injured when falling off a toilet wall.
The judgement ran something like -- It is better that a child break his arm than break.his spirit.
What will happen is that  the majority of the country will be 'inconvenienced' by the bill. they enjoy the thrill (probably should have written are glad to escape the pressures) of their lives yet their pub will not offer the mental medicine it offers now. Many pubs will not survive.
Think about the pleasure that many scots people have lost because the bingo club has closed.
The whole thing hyas been worked as a
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